why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

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why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by leytonryan on Tue May 27, 2008 4:39 pm

Good day pips,

Just got back from holiday and left the incubator with my dad when i returned i had five of eight chicks born. not bad for the third time ey. But he told me he had opened the eggs himself as soon as they piped out, he cracked them open so they could get out themselves, But he said he actually broke the skin (placenta) to free them. OK i have read that if you do this you will kill the chick. Can anyone clarify why none of the chicks bled to death. Secondly i have one chick who has his legs a bit sperated, he walks like doing a split and anoth who has them a bit inwards. Anyone can give me some answers.

Cheers PPl

From Gibraltar.

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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by internet_nobody on Tue May 27, 2008 4:49 pm

Luck. The chicks had probably thrashed around enough that they didn't loose too much blood, if the blood supply was broken off from the body but still in the network attached to the egg it wouldn't harm the chicks to take the egg off. Normally the chicks haven't moved enough by pipping and their blood supply is still connected.

Splayed legs are normally caused by lack of grip when they get on their feet (ie on a plastic surface), or curled toes/feet can be due to wrong temp or late hatching.
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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by sammyboy on Tue May 27, 2008 4:55 pm

With Splayed legs if you tie a figure of 8 between the legs to keep them together they should go back to normal.

sam
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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by leytonryan on Tue May 27, 2008 5:48 pm

tHANKS, FOR THE ADVICE.WITH WHAT CAN I TIE THERE LEGS. iS IT POSSIBLE THAT IF HE HADN'T TAKEN THEM OUT MAYBE SOME WOULD HAVE DIED.

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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by Suz on Tue May 27, 2008 5:58 pm

Its hard to say, I'm presuming the chicks were over due before your father assisted them out ... otherwise they most certainly would have bled to death. It could be they were just about ready to burst out naturally when he stepped in to help.

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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by internet_nobody on Tue May 27, 2008 6:05 pm

leytonryan wrote:tHANKS, FOR THE ADVICE.WITH WHAT CAN I TIE THERE LEGS. iS IT POSSIBLE THAT IF HE HADN'T TAKEN THEM OUT MAYBE SOME WOULD HAVE DIED.

I use micropore, the surgical tape stuff to correct curled toes, i'd assume it would work for splayed legs too. Or a bit of string?
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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by sammyboy on Tue May 27, 2008 6:09 pm

just a bit of string or something thin. but nothing too thick.

sam
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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by dan on Tue May 27, 2008 8:04 pm

hi you can take the inner sheel off without causng the chick to bleed just make sure you get them out quick enough

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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by hask2004 on Tue May 27, 2008 9:08 pm



hi every body, indeed the first hatching was only one egg, one thing he do not know how to eat, also his leg not normal , and the chick after three days died.
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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by internet_nobody on Tue May 27, 2008 9:40 pm

dan wrote:hi you can take the inner sheel off without causng the chick to bleed just make sure you get them out quick enough

Read this topic to find out just how wrong you are Dan. There's absolutely no reason to peel the shell off in the normal incubation process, its just you selfishly wanting to get the chicks out quicker and not caring about how many you kill.

For all you know the chick may not have fully absorbed the yolk sac, so you quickly rip that off...Blood vessels on the membrane are attached to the chick, rip those off and there's nothing to put pressure on to stop the bleeding. If chicks were supposed to be peeled out of eggs, hens would have opposable thumbs. The only times you should ever remove the shell and are likely to do more good than harm are if the chick has been struggling for over 24 hours - by then all the blood vessels will have been crushed by the chick's movement, and if it can't get out of the shell it will die anyway.
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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by Suz on Tue May 27, 2008 9:51 pm

dan wrote:hi you can take the inner sheel off without causng the chick to bleed just make sure you get them out quick enough

This really isn't the case at all pale

Wrenching the chick from its shell however quickly before its ready will cause profuse bleeding which normally leads to death. If it does survive the blood loss, it will be susceptible to infection of the navel or yolk sac if not fully absorbed. Its toes will more than likely be curled as they stretch the tendons while pushing there way out of the shell & they will also suffer from wry weak necks .... they may not die instantly but linger for a few days before they die of dehydration.

If you feel the progress is slow after initial pipping (after 38hrs) then maybe intervene. First check the due hatching date before doing anything, then Candle to check the chick has actually internally pipped if that is the case try puncturing the top of shell and raising the humidity, before trying to slowly peel the chick out, but never just rip the chick out.

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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by dan on Tue May 27, 2008 10:41 pm

not at all.my incubator usually works fine.but every now and then you get a chick which does not want to hatch and may have been in the hatching process for days.in the end the chick will die of excuasion so it needs help.i admit this is rare with quail but a lot more common with chcikens and turkeys so its important to intervine and monitor the hatching process.obviously i do not wrench the shell off but with a little care chicks can be saved.chciks do die under broodys this way so maybe they should evolve.anyways i dident say chciks should be helped out straight away but if you need to help it and it is bleeding as long as ou dont leave it to bleed for ages its something that needs doing!

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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by Klaire on Tue May 27, 2008 11:01 pm

But doesn't leaving the chicks to hatch by themselves make them stronger to face the world?
The dangers were explained in this post by Derek, http://coturnixcorneruk.forumotion.com/daft-questions-f14/why-can-t-we-do-caesarean-sections-on-eggs-t1245.htm#8397, which makes it perfectly clear why it's dangerous to intervene.
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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by Suz on Tue May 27, 2008 11:19 pm

Caescarean section.
by Ironsun on Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:53 am

WHY CAN'T WE DO CAESAREAN SECTIONS ON EGGS.

Bird embryo's are not supported by placentas as mammals are. Instead there is a network of blood vessels that line the shell and ends up in an umbilical cord that is attacted to the quail at it's "belly button".

When the quail is ready to hatch, it breaks into the air cell and begins to breathe. This triggers the network of supporting blood vessels to begin to shut down. All the blood from these vessels must drain into the quail before it is ready to hatch.

The quail struggles and movement helps this process and by the time it is ready to hatch there is no more blood in the vessels that line the shell.

If the shell is broken before this network of blood vessels has stopped functioning and one or more of these vessels is damaged, there will be bleeding. Baby birds don't have a lot of spare blood and this can be dangerious.

When a mammal is born, the umbilical cord is usually crushed before the baby is born, so it does not bleed. During a caesarean section, the cord is clamped before cutting for the same reason.

It's simply not possable to clamp the cord of a baby bird before breaking the shell, so opening the egg while that network of blood vessels is still functioning will cause many to be torn which would be the same as tearing open (or removing) the placenta while the baby is still using it. The baby will bleed to death.

I hope people read this and think about what your doing when opening eggs, You may think your helping the chicks, but your not.

Derek.

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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by dan on Tue May 27, 2008 11:39 pm

odear

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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by leytonryan on Wed May 28, 2008 5:54 pm

Wanted a straight forward answer, thanks guys, Suz is right i do see that the chick with the split legs is weaker, probably should should never had hatched.Tried putting some rope on his legs but he just falls on his back and cant get up. iTHINK i will let nature take its course with this one.

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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by Suz on Wed May 28, 2008 7:11 pm

leytonryan wrote:Wanted a straight forward answer, thanks guys.

To which question??

leytonryan wrote: But he said he actually broke the skin (placenta) to free them. OK i have read that if you do this you will kill the chick. Can anyone clarify why none of the chicks bled to death.


No Idea ... LUCK probably, but the chicks must have been ready to hatch or they wouldn't have survived the ordeal.

leytonryan wrote:iS IT POSSIBLE THAT IF HE HADN'T TAKEN THEM OUT MAYBE SOME WOULD HAVE DIED.

Impossible to answer without know why your father decided to break open the eggs ..... but in all likelihood if your incubation technique was correct then there is no reason to believe they wouldn't have hatched naturally.

Just out of curiosity why did your father open up all the eggs?

Suz

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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by Horsley-Anarak on Wed May 28, 2008 8:33 pm

I have helped a few bantams out, and they have been fine.

If 24 hrs after pipping and breaking open the shell they are still not out, you can see that there is reduced movement due to tiredness, you toss the coin do I help

or do I not help.

With the ones I have helped out, all that I have done is to very gently increase the size of the opening in the shell.

Then they normally get out, sometimes the membrane is almost stuck to them (humidity too low).

I have never seen bleeding, only very tired chicks.

I would not think that ripping the shells of would be a great idea.

It is up to the individual, touch or don't touch. It has worked for me.

H-A

P.S. Don't be too hard on Dan
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Re: why are my chicks not dead??!!!!

Post by dan on Wed May 28, 2008 10:46 pm

thanks its nice to have a friend here.i never said i wripped them out to be honest,all i said is if you are going to help a chick you shouldent be messing around with it for ages taking little bits of shell off at a time because like you said the chicks will get tired and if you do that in the end they will die.you just do what you need to do to take the chick out of the shell or help it by taking a bit off.but i suppose other memebrs avoid this so they dont get the blame if the chcik dies.at the end of the day its a matter of opinion if you choose to help a struggling chick or not.

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