hybrids

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hybrids

Post by jwarnick on Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:35 pm

Hello,
I just joined this group today so I'm sorry if this question has been asked a million times but I was wondering if anyone has breed two different types of quails to create a hybrid. For example a mexican speckle to a Japanese tuxedo.
Any info on hybrids would be interesting to hear.
Thanks!
Jill

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Re: hybrids

Post by Klaire on Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:50 pm

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Re: hybrids

Post by internet_nobody on Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:24 pm

Mexican speckled is a kind of bobwhite, which is one of the "new world" quail, Japs are a different genus so not sure a hybrid would work. Hybrids created in the US all tend to be the same genus, although some websites claim to have produced a "bobbird" which is supposed to be a bob x jap - but there's no pics anywhere.
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Re: hybrids

Post by QuailCrazyUSA on Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:55 am

I spoke to a gamebird farmer on the phone today. He said that he is working with a woman who is crossing bob's and goldens. And further stated that all jumbo quail are bobwhite jap hybrids. Not sure if its true but he sounded quite sincere, and I clearly wasnt even interested in the jumbo's. Ed
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Re: hybrids

Post by Mark on Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:07 am

Here is a photo of a Golden Speckled Coturnix.


I have a set of BW's and Coturnix together we will see what comes of that. I did notice some breeding today.

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Re: hybrids

Post by Suz on Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:42 am

The bird in Mark's picture is just a Golden Jap. Its sad what folk will advertise their birds as to try and generate more money from them. There is no sign of any BW in the bird at all, you would expect the offspring to show some BW characteristics (body, head or beak shape, colour or maybe even some difference to the feet)but everything in that picture screams nice looking coturnix hens.

The question of a possible coturnix x colinus hybrid was raised on the US forum 'ThatQuailPlace' none of the experienced breeder had heard of one, I've googled and read through the 'Handbook of Avian Hybrids of the world' and found no evidence of such a cross being recorded. I keep Japs & Bobwhites together (think Nino does too) and have never had a hybrid chick ..... and until I see one myself Just wont believe its possible Smile

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PS. Ed if it were me, I'd keep my hand in my pockets, stay away from that breeder as he seems to working on some sort of scam Sad

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Re: hybrids

Post by andoy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:54 am

Totally agree with Suz. Those look like plain ole Italian/gold Coturnix.

Also Mexican Speckled is a recessive Bobwhite colour mutation that vaguely resembles Italian/gold colour (but much nicer, the stiriations are very different). If you cross Mex Speckled with other strains of Bobwhites, you won't get Mexican Speckled mutation. You'll get a variation of wild colour form and washed out birds (I have some pure Mex Speckled and some crossed ones). So I don't think it's coincidental they chose to use Italian/gold. I also know people that keep them together (I do but my Bobs are still immature) without crossing.

Buyers beware!
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Re: hybrids

Post by dave. on Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:16 pm

Hi I've got 1 bob cock in with 6 different japs he jumps on ok, but then he's not sure what to do and falls off. lol Going to stick some eggs in inc soon a see what happens.
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Re: hybrids

Post by andoy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:30 pm

Could you put some makeup on the Japs to make them look like Bob females? Razz
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Re: hybrids

Post by Suz on Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:38 pm

off topic but ... I've never caught my bob's on the job but I know they must do it as i've hatched their chicks, although I did catch Mika (mini silkie) humping a poor bemused boy bob yesterday .... stupid chicken wish he spent more time with his girls and less on the Quail & rabbit Rolling Eyes ....he might be make interesting hybrids though lol.

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Re: hybrids

Post by andoy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:56 pm

Sorry Suz, but I can't take this topic too seriously. I know hybrids are theoretically possible with these 2 species, but that is more likely to happen in the labratory (via gene splicing). If it were likely to happen, it would have happened already. Think we have to be a bit realistic here.
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Re: hybrids

Post by andoy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:59 pm

now Bob x Bunnies, that's def more likely Razz
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Re: hybrids

Post by Suz on Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:29 pm

the offtopic mannie was directed to myself, Andy Smile Like it's said before I don't believe anyone has devloped a BW x Jap hybrid, i just wish folk would stop pretending they have or prove it if they have .... but not with pictures of what are clearly pure coturnix

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Re: hybrids

Post by andoy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:51 pm

he he... serves me right for speed reading ROFLMAO I'm rubbish at multi-tasking... I'm working on a web site, watching my ducks don't get into trouble and on the forum.

Yeah, it's only a matter of time before Italian/gold will start to be called Speckled Italian or something like that. Actually come to think of it, I think I've seen a listing on UK eBay recently calling it something like that.
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Re: hybrids

Post by dave. on Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:28 pm

Well that put the Silkies amongest the rabbits. lol
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Re: hybrids

Post by Mark on Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:20 pm

This guy has some cross breeds of BW's

Mark

http://stanritar.tripod.com/bobwhite-speckled.html

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Re: hybrids

Post by andoy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:30 pm

that link points to a Mexican Speckled Bobwhite by the way, not a hybrid Coturnix x Bobwhite. Just a different colour mutation. I have 3 of those in my aviary and very pretty they are too Very Happy
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Re: hybrids

Post by QuailCrazyUSA on Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:52 pm

I'm not sure I agree with suz and andy, If someone did show you a picture of this hybrid? How would you know it was a hybrid or not? No one has seen one right? So what basis of comparison is being used? Many hybrids only resmble one parent strongly, so again how would you even know what you were looking at? In my opinion the only proof is to try it and see, or do a dna test, and since such testing is betond my pricerange, I shall wait and see what my jap cpq pairing will bring. Ed
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Re: hybrids

Post by QuailCrazyUSA on Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:30 pm

Sorry if that last post was a bit harsh. When I spoke to the afore mentioned gamebird farmer, he only knew I was looking for a smaller jap. I'm not sure that he is a scam artist. If he is, he's very bad at it, trying to sell me a bird he knew I would never be interested in! Razz But I must add that all I bought from him was a dozen brown jap eggs, as they were a fair price. And quite honestly I will be doing weigh ins to verify the 5oz average he claimed. Its a crying shame there arent more quail fancier's in the US as opposed to gamebird farmer's. Perhaps some form of cohesive standards for size, color, etc. etc. would be more commonly used. As to the question of hybrids, if my hybrid pairing is indeed succesful (same genus after all Wink ) I am so gonna dance all around the room! happydance2 If not I shall work on making my own mini jap. Hopefully I'll get lucky and someone will import them someday! bounce
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Re: hybrids

Post by Suz on Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:47 pm

QuailCrazyUSA wrote: If someone did show you a picture of this hybrid? How would you know it was a hybrid or not? ..... No one has seen one right? ..... Many hybrids only resmble one parent strongly, so again how would you even know what you were looking at? Ed

Mmmmmm ..... Don't think i agree with any off the above Smile

No, I've never seen a picture of a BW x Jap hybrid which makes believe even more that they don't exist. I'm sure if anyone had developed such a thing the net & game forums would be full of information and photo's. Even then I wouldn't believe it without a published scientific paper to back it up which is the norm when registering a hybrid.

I've spent hours today searching from Quail hybrids from the book I mentioned earlier - and this is the only reference I can find so far linking the 2 species together ....

"A commercial hybrid was allegedly produced by crossing Grey Partridge with (unspecified) members of Colinus and Coturnix."

Many hybrids also resemble both parent, .... I was going to post pics of commonly known hybrids that resemble both parents, but for copyright reasons I'll post links Smile (Good excuse to look at funny looking beasties Very Happy)

Game Birds
Lion x Tiger
lion x leopardZebra Hybrids

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Re: hybrids

Post by andoy on Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:58 pm

hi Ed,

The reason I say it's unlikely that Coturnix and Colinus (Bobwhites) are extremely unlikely is the lack of documented evidence. Both these species have been kept in captivity for a long time and they aren't exactly new to Science. Many breeders want to hybridise to combine features, so it's not from lack of trying.

There is a lot of documented evidence of other hybrids mainly to guinea fowl, pheasants and even between the new world quails. They aren't necessarily from the same genus either (our Linnaen classification system is arguably outdated and archaic given many advances in genetics). If hyridisation is possible it usually happens with great regularity. If it doesn't happen freely, then the offspring are usually very frail as they often have a rare genetic trait that enabled the cross to occur.

Anything is possible, whether it's probable is another matter.

Good luck with your experiments. If you manage to produce one, we definitely love to see the results.
Andy

p.s. many of us have been stung by egg selling scams, so forgive us if we're a bit sceptical Razz
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Re: hybrids

Post by QuailCrazyUSA on Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:01 pm

Its true Suz there are no pics, and I'm not sure if I believe in a BW jap hybrid. I dont think it's impossible either, I just think its never been so openly disscussed as it is nowadays so we cant really know yet in my opnion. Particularly in regards to the cross I'm attempting, they're in the same genus. As are many of the macaw's, ever see a hyacinth macaw, and military macaw? They look so unrelated in all but the most basic ways, just like the quail under discussion, and yet they are commonly hybridised and the offspring are fertile with either species. As are cockatoos. As are conures. I know these parrots do not belong to the genus coturnix, but they make me believe that some of the hybrids we are disscussing are possible. Ed
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Re: hybrids

Post by QuailCrazyUSA on Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:49 pm

Galah cockatiel hybrid, awful video but there are some shots where you can see its no hoax. It clearly shows traits from both parents, it's feet and legs are what convinced me in the end, no tiel has legs that stout. And there are definitely quite a few more visible signs of both species: A blending of both color patterns(subtle), a crest intermediate between both parents, body feathering in general. Even size/build are intermediate between both parents. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Va82B64ow
And just listen to its voice! I was quite amazed to come across this. Ed
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