Layers Mash instead of a chick crumb?

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Layers Mash instead of a chick crumb?

Post by Animals4life on Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:16 pm

I was just talking to a local feed supplier about getting in poultry feed and I said I would be ordering Chick crumb, Layers Mash/Pellets and a finisher pellet and she said she has been raising birds (button quail, ducks, geese and chickens) for 11 years and has always used layers mash instead of chick crumb, so I searched the "stats" of the feed and the oil, fibre and protein in chick crumbs (Allen and Page small hoder) and it is the same as it is in layers mash (although I am having problems finding the ash stat in the chick crumb) so was wondering if the layers mash could be used instead of chick crumb?

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Re: Layers Mash instead of a chick crumb?

Post by Ironsun on Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:28 pm

Hi,

Poultry food is made in three parts, Chick, growers and layers. This is how it should be fed.

The different products contain different things, why would day old chicks need Calcium carbonate? when they don't lay eggs.

You probably can get away with feeding young chicks on "adults" food, but are they getting the right kinds of vitamins and calcium? Generally layer mash is a lot cheaper than chick crumbs.

Stick to feeding chicks, Chick Crumbs and feed adult bird Adult food.

Derek.
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Re: Layers Mash instead of a chick crumb?

Post by internet_nobody on Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:19 pm

I use chick crumbs (preferably the high protein game stuff) for chicks then at 4 weeks put them onto quail layers, I used to use turkey growers but the quail are higher protein, and since quail come into lay a lot sooner than turkeys/chickens figured that it didn't make much difference, and since they sometimes come into lay at 6 weeks they're better off with the calcium in layers than trying to form an egg from growers.
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Re: Layers Mash instead of a chick crumb?

Post by andoy on Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:30 pm

Further to what Derek said,

The food analysis is different for each brand. However there is a difference between the types of feed. Generally higher protein and oils for chicks, then more carb and fibre for growers, and finally calcium for layers. I've found most of the nutritional analysis on them quite blurred and impossible to read.

I suppose you can make the same analogy for humans. Children need certain foods to develop properly and reach their full potential; Calcium for bones (to prevent rickets), proteins, vitamins and fats to fuel growth. Generally adults need to avoid fatty foods and eat more fibre. Pregnant women also have specific requirements (which I know nothing about).

I've read a book that says a macrobolic diet of calorific values balanced out at 45% carbs, 35% protein, and 20% good oils is the optimum for adult humans to build muscle and avoid body fat. Don't really understand all the science behind it as it's pretty hard reading.
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Re: Layers Mash instead of a chick crumb?

Post by Animals4life on Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:35 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone!

andoy wrote:Pregnant women also have specific requirements (which I know nothing about).

I dont know why, but I was nearly rolling on the floor laughing at this Laughing

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Re: Layers Mash instead of a chick crumb?

Post by Oneounce2many on Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:04 pm

24% protein chick starter is your man.
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Re: Layers Mash instead of a chick crumb?

Post by internet_nobody on Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:09 pm

Oneounce2many wrote:24% protein chick starter is your man.
Its a bugger to find that in the UK - anything over 18% is a struggle. Game bird stuff is higher protein, but most sites insist you order by the tonne!
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Re: Layers Mash instead of a chick crumb?

Post by Suz on Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:22 pm

Turkey starter is 24% Protein, crumb is the same size as chick crumb and readily available from feed suppliers in 20kg bags .... only drawback is its about 2 dearer the bag.

The feed I'm using just now is by Massey Bros (feeds) LTD ... Tel. 01477 533312

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Re: Layers Mash instead of a chick crumb?

Post by andoy on Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:40 pm

Just wondering if excessively high protein diets may be
counter-productive, but I don't know what the upper limit should be for
quail. I know people who go on the Aitkins diet end up going into
ketosis. Often described as "fat burning state that occurs during
starvation" and quite damaging to their long term health (particularly
the heart and kidneys). So wonder if the same is true with fowl?

If you growing them for the table (surplus males), then I guess you
want a diet that will get them to maximise their size, but layers need
a more balanced diet.

Carbs aren't all bad either (despite all the bad press), body builders often go into cycles called "carb loading." I'm going to install a gym with free weights in my run Razz
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Re: Layers Mash instead of a chick crumb?

Post by internet_nobody on Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:44 pm

Suz, can you remember that nice link I found that detailed how much protein various birds need? I am sure the quail requirment on there was something like 24% for adult birds. The "new world" birds are supposed to need more protein, but i'm not sure if thats just what US breeders say as they're bred for hunting (so want big muscly birds?).
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Re: Layers Mash instead of a chick crumb?

Post by Suz on Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:09 pm

I might have the link on the other laptop. I did a google and found a scientific journal piece recommending 24% protein for Japs but could only get the highlighted version ... I'll see if I can find that too ....

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